Vintage HiFi Audio Forum
Audio Discussion => DIY => Topic started by: Reverend on October 23, 2011, 07:48:35 PM
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I bought this Thorens TD-150 MKii off of Jim about a month ago. Very quiet motor/platter and surprisingly heavy. i think i'm going to stick with the traditional base but add some new legs. I added a new floating tone arm board made out of guitar pick-guard material. I have one working Thorens tonearm but i'm not sure if i'm going to use it yet. There was another control originally but someone removed it. I'm thinking of sinking a bubble level in the hole. Should be a fun project.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0185.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0187.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0188.jpg)
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Very nice Rev, Keep us posted with lots of pics.
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Ryan.
Looks good, please keep us updated
Brian
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Since i'm a glutton for punishment, I thought i'd make something overly complicated. I'be been reading about the golf ball tonearm on Well Tempered Labs TT's and thought why not. Instead of a golf ball i'm using a ping pong ball and a piece of carbon fiber rod from a fishing rod. The small cup that it will sit in is stainless steal and will have a black stripe painted on it to match the stripe on the on/off knob. The piece of wood I added to the front of the table around the outer plater, will also be added to the back. The ball will sit in some type of lubricant (not sure what yet) and be suspended, by a thin wire or thread, from the metal paddle. Should be fun... :laugh:
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0192.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0191.jpg)
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William Firebaugh is a sick individual, I am working up to afford a well tempered turntable, my personal pick. Good luck in your quest.
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:o :o :o :o
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So far i've finished the tone arm and ran the wires through it. I'm waiting on RCA jacks I ordered to come in. Still have a bunch of woodwork to do but it's coming along.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0197.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0198.jpg)
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rev - how is the arm balanced? how will you handle anti-skate?
this project looks great - sound like you may hav missed your calling as a surgeon.
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The arm is suspended by running wire from a paddle overhead to two points that are symmetric on either side of the ball. As you can see from the picture, the wire is wound clockwise at the top where it meets the paddle it's suspended from. Having it wound clockwise will make it naturally return to it's starting position so anti-skating is taken care of. I will be using a silicone lubricant for the ball to sit in and make the movement smoother.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0200.jpg)
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How about a Teflon ball or something super slippy like the matrial on those furniture sliders? Interesting stuff Rev, I am intrigued with your creative skills.
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Impressive. Very impressibe. Hope it works.
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Interesting "twist" on handling anti skate. I suppose the amount of anti skating force can be readily adjusted by varying the number of twists. What tracking weight will you set?
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Still working out what to use as the weight, working with my grado cart. Other then that the turntable is almost done. I still need to add some more inlay wood into the sides of the stand but should be up and running soon.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0204.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0205.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0206.jpg)
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Might that old hole you so neatly covered with wood have been for an on/off switch.?
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Might that old hole you so neatly covered with wood have been for an on/off switch.?
No, it was a lift mechanism. The on/33/45 knob is on the left side.
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Rev, do you take on lost causes?
I have some questions.
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I'm happy to answer any questions....if i can.
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A few more pictures of my almost complete turntable. I still need to do some woodwork and polishing but it's almost done. I'm at the point of mounting a cart, should do that in the next couple of nights.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0211.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0208.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0209.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0210.jpg)
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Wow, really nice work! :) Looks awesome!
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Damned that looks good. My TT is kinda bland, so I have it near some junk to add interest. Yours can stand on it's on.
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Finished. Tracks amazingly, but a little too much spring. Would be better on a flat, non-suspended board but oh well. You learn.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0214.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0213.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0212.jpg)
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Looks great - you need to bring it to a meeting for auditioning...
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More pics.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0215.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0217.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0216.jpg)
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Looks great!
How does it sound! The whole floaty ball thing has me curious and mystified. What do you believe are the best attributes of the floaty ball?
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That is kick ass.
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Excellent work Rev!! Looks awesome!! :o
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Thanks everyone. I will bring it to the shop sometime in the near future. I think the best attribute of the floating tonearm is that it cuts down tremendously on the friction you can have with a regular tonearm. A regular pivot arm is going to have restrictions from the pivot point. A linear tonearm is still going to have limits because you still do not have a full range of movement. This floating ball allows it to move effortlessly. I think well tempered might have goofed when using a golf ball. It works, but has a lot more weight to it then a ping pong ball would. I think having only the weight on the head and the tone arm weight on the opposite end works better. I wasn't sure if I was going to have to add weight to the ball, I had planned for it if needed but it turns I didn't. I found a lubricant fluid that works very well for the ball to sit in as well. I tried several things but I think I found the right one.
This turntable is a model. I built it by mostly working with one piece at a time, a lot of superglue and trial and error. I'm not particularly happy with the appearance but I know what works and what doesn't now. I think I have this tonearm figured out and can make it 10x better. I'm already in the process of making a second that will be aesthetically better. I found something that I really enjoy doing and have the thought of making more in the future and selling them. Or if someone wants it added to their existing TT I can do that as well. Just a thought.
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Looks great! especially for a prototype! How's the sound?
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It sounds very good but I've only listened to it for about an hour so far. One mistake I found right away was with the Thorens, it is a suspended plateform so the tonearm board moves with the platter. This type of tonearm needs to be on a non-suspended table or mounted on a flat/non-moving surface. It's overkill and makes it more susceptible to vibration.
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That's crazy Rev...I LOVE IT!!!!! ;)
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Very nice Rev. Do you think the floating ball makes the initial setup for cartridge overhang, null point set, VTA, etc. more difficult? After all, you don't have a fixed pivot point. The ball looks like it has some "play" in the cup. I guess you could add fluid to the cup to adjust the VTA, but then you would need to adjust the slack in the string.
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Your turntable projects are awesome, not sure that I am ready for the ping pong ball treatment, but I wouldn't mind having someone check out my Thorens. I think it has a bent tone arm. I started taking it apart and looking for a replacement but my cordless drill was too big to fit in some of the screws. :o
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Very nice Rev. Do you think the floating ball makes the initial setup for cartridge overhang, null point set, VTA, etc. more difficult? After all, you don't have a fixed pivot point. The ball looks like it has some "play" in the cup. I guess you could add fluid to the cup to adjust the VTA, but then you would need to adjust the slack in the string.
The initial setup is probably the most difficult. I used a template and it was hard to get it set to it's natural playing position. As far as the fluid, I have it filled to a point that seems to work well. The fluid is not very thick and the weight of the tonearm is enough to never have any type of slack on the wire. It's still too heavy to float. The ball does have some play in the cup, that's why it's larger so it can natural move around if needed. It's at the shop now, we were playing it last night and not one hiccup. It tracks like a dream and I thought it sounded pretty good on a pair of 305's.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/Thorens%20td-150%20mkii/IMAG0218.jpg)
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Nice photo!
It looks fabulous! I'm glad to hear that it sounds great. Very interesting project, and kudos for detailing how this table is setup to work.
Regards,
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Good tracking is easy to get, just sit a beer on top.
Some worry about record wear, but I don't. Records are cheap, not so much cart repair.
My understanding has always been the best was just below float. If yours don't float, how do you dial it in?
I am not a critic, just trying to learn.
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In my eyes the cup of lubrication works in two ways. One, it cuts down on the only friction point, the hanging ball. Second is that it prevents any rocking back and forth.
I already started on a new one. We'll see how this one turns out.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/2nd%20Attempt/IMAG0230.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/2nd%20Attempt/IMAG0231.jpg)
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Almost done. Still need to mount it and make a tonearm rest. Looking forward to giving it a spin tomorrow!
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/2nd%20Attempt/IMAG0008.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/2nd%20Attempt/IMAG0016.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/2nd%20Attempt/IMAG0017.jpg)
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It sounds very good but I've only listened to it for about an hour so far. One mistake I found right away was with the Thorens, it is a suspended plateform so the tonearm board moves with the platter. This type of tonearm needs to be on a non-suspended table or mounted on a flat/non-moving surface. It's overkill and makes it more susceptible to vibration.
Perhaps a two piece plinth with the armboard completely detached is in order.
This is so impressive to me. I wish I had those kind of skills.
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I hard mounted the tonearm board on the Thorens, that took care of the issue. I mounted the new all metal tonearm to my other turn table but have not been able to try it yet. I tried using old tonearm wires and it wasn't cutting it. I just purchased new ones and once I install those I'll give it a spin.
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The tone arm suport bracket looks too much like and old Dust Bug (before they were made out of plastic)I have around here somewhere.
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It's because part of the arm is made from a dust brush, lol. I'm not a machinist, i'm piecing this stuff together from parts I have lying around.
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Still waiting on new tonearm wires but i've been working on the base some more.
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/2nd%20Attempt/IMAG0234.jpg)
(http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy313/RevAmish/2nd%20Attempt/IMAG0235.jpg)
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Amazing work Rev. I remember doing this like this a couple of decades ago. Mostly tweeking/modifying
arms, suspensions, motors. Lots of fun.
If you need an alternative arm material look into carbon fiber arrow shafts. Even high end aluminum/alloy shafts. They are probably some of the straightest, most precisely machined shafts you can get. And given thier precision a very affordable alternative.
Keep up the great work!
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I installed the new tonearm wires and gave it a whirl. Right away I started to get some swaying back and forth that I know from the previous build has to do with the improper amount of weight. So, I added more weight to the end and a dime to the head shell, after a little trial and error it is singing like a dream. Great detail. I'm using a Grado cart playing Roger Water's "The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking". I truly believe it sounds as good as my Denon running a much more expensive cart. I'm very happy with the results and look forward to the next project.... which will be an air bearing tone arm, lol.
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this is so awesome! i would have never imagined a 'floating' tone arm! that's so impressive. thank you for sharing this!
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That is really cool. Great creativity!