Author Topic: Subwoofer setup  (Read 252 times)

Offline EmperorNorton

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Subwoofer setup
« on: March 21, 2020, 08:46:28 AM »
Trying to learn how much bass I should be getting from my speakers, with a subwoofer hooked up to the Quad II amps.   I have a unbranded subwoofer purchased from an estate sale a couple years ago.  Its compact, 14 x 12 x 10, power comsumption 300W on label, front port, 8 or 10 inch downward firing woofer protected by metal grill.  I have speaker wire running from Quad 80s right and left speakers terminal to the right and left sub terminal. 
The Cantons are 4 ohm and the sub is 8ohm so I have the sub positive hooked to the 4 Ohm outputs.  That is hookup advice I got from rgpit as well as from Upscale audio when I had the Primaluna hooked up,  4 ohm pos to the Cantons and 8 ohm pos to the sub

Crossover reads 40 to 160 and I usually have it around  9 oclock so guessing that is probably 70hz?   I still seem to get good bass from the Cantons and the sub produced bass too. 

Just wondering how this works,   as I thought the subwoofer is supposed to 'divert' the low frequency to it and reducing the  workload on the mains and allowing the main speakers to produce more mid and upper frequencies. 

thanks in advance for any suggestion and /or knowledge!!
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Offline Jim Pittsburgh

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2020, 08:57:52 AM »
Just to clarify; you are running the speaker wires from the amps to the sub. Are you then running the speaker wires from the High Frequency outputs on the sub to your speakers OR are you running another set of speaker wires from the amp to the speakers?

Sorry if I missed it in what you wrote above, but I did read it twice lol
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Offline EmperorNorton

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2020, 04:03:06 PM »
I am running four pairs off the two amps.  Two pairs to the loudspeakers and two pairs to the L & R inputs on the sub. So the crossover setting has no effect on the mains Following rgpit's advice,  I am running the sub crossed over slightly above the lowest setting of 40 Hz.   Side two of "The Beatles" sounded very good  Now spinning a first pressing of 'Pinups
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Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2020, 06:20:06 PM »
So the crossover setting has no effect on the mains

That is your answer.   You are still running the mains full range.   So the sub is not relieving them of anything, just reinforcing the frequencies it is covering.

Offline scorpio333

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2020, 07:34:29 PM »
I am running four pairs off the two amps.  Two pairs to the loudspeakers and two pairs to the L & R inputs on the sub. So the crossover setting has no effect on the mains Following rgpit's advice,  I am running the sub crossed over slightly above the lowest setting of 40 Hz.   Side two of "The Beatles" sounded very good  Now spinning a first pressing of 'Pinups

That's how I do it, although not on fancy pant mono blocks! Now, do the subwoofer crawl and enjoy.

Offline Jim Pittsburgh

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2020, 10:35:55 AM »
I have never done it this way and have always found that anytime I duplicated frequencies between the mains and the sub I ended up with many more issues than if I used the sub to limit the responses of the main L/R. Just my opinion, your results may vary lol
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Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2020, 10:46:35 AM »
I have never done it this way and have always found that anytime I duplicated frequencies between the mains and the sub I ended up with many more issues than if I used the sub to limit the responses of the main L/R. Just my opinion, your results may vary lol

I agree.   Standing waves can be very problematic in this type of setup.

Offline rgpit

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2020, 02:08:03 PM »
Quote
I have never done it this way and have always found that anytime I duplicated frequencies between the mains and the sub I ended up with many more issues than if I used the sub to limit the responses of the main L/R. Just my opinion, your results may vary lol

I think if you cross over the sub low enough and match the natural roll off of your main speakers there should not be an issue. For me, I feel the less circuitry in line with the main speakers the better. I think most people cross over their subs at too high a frequency and use too much gain and it ends up screwing up the mid bass.
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Offline rgpit

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2020, 02:12:18 PM »
Quote
I agree.   Standing waves can be very problematic in this type of setup.

Not sure why standing waves have anything to do with crossover setup/method. Could you explain?
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Offline scorpio333

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2020, 02:16:45 PM »
I haven't noticed standing waves on my analog rig or the HTR setup. I'm using two subs on the HTR setup, my Yamaha 681 handles subs poorly in my experience. When using Pure Direct (what I use most often) it completely shuts off the sub outputs. I like my subs to just extend the lows the mains can't reach to and because family the sub volume isn't very high. If my subs are crossed over just higher than the mains lowest I'd think that would eliminate any 'weirdness' where they overlap. Please correct me if my thinking here is wrong.

Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2020, 04:54:50 PM »
Quote
I agree.   Standing waves can be very problematic in this type of setup.

Not sure why standing waves have anything to do with crossover setup/method. Could you explain?

The same frequency coming from several different points in the room.   Your clarification about crossing the sub below the natural roll off of the mains would negate that, but I didn't understand that to be part of the instruction.   I just thought all three speakers were playing that 38Hz fundamental of the kick drum (for example).

Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2020, 04:57:15 PM »
I haven't noticed standing waves on my analog rig or the HTR setup. I'm using two subs on the HTR setup, my Yamaha 681 handles subs poorly in my experience. When using Pure Direct (what I use most often) it completely shuts off the sub outputs. I like my subs to just extend the lows the mains can't reach to and because family the sub volume isn't very high. If my subs are crossed over just higher than the mains lowest I'd think that would eliminate any 'weirdness' where they overlap. Please correct me if my thinking here is wrong.

When using pure direct you are completely at the mercy of the mix.   Where you are crossing them makes no difference in that mode.   I also agree about the xover point.

Offline Jim Pittsburgh

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2020, 09:54:22 AM »
Having floorstanders for my main L/R, I have found that setting them and all the other speakers to the small setting and setting the crossover at 40 or 60 htz ( depends on the system) makes all the difference. Although it should be noted that 80htz is more of a standard crossover especially for smaller mains/ center.  But you must set the main speakers and all the others in your system to small!
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Offline scorpio333

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2020, 06:13:13 PM »
When using pure direct you are completely at the mercy of the mix. 

I'm ok with that. Most of what I watch is Fios or Netflix/Hulu on AppleTV. I feel empowered ??? telling the HTR to NOT TOUCH the signal, just amplify it. It's the compromise I've come to after spending too much time trying every other setting and still having to switch settings depending on what I'm watching. The exceptions are stuff still broadcast in 2ch like Pens games, for those I use 7 channel.

Offline Sir Thrift-a-Lot

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Re: Subwoofer setup
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2020, 11:02:19 PM »
When using pure direct you are completely at the mercy of the mix. 

I'm ok with that. Most of what I watch is Fios or Netflix/Hulu on AppleTV. I feel empowered ??? telling the HTR to NOT TOUCH the signal, just amplify it. It's the compromise I've come to after spending too much time trying every other setting and still having to switch settings depending on what I'm watching. The exceptions are stuff still broadcast in 2ch like Pens games, for those I use 7 channel.

When you are using full range speakers all around that is fine.   With my mini monitors I have to send a lot of info to the sub via the receiver or it is simply lost.   However, I've done a pretty good job of blending everything so you don't really notice that happening.